- Coffee?
- Yeah, thank you.
How have you liked
your stay?
What I've seen, I've liked.
Please to explain why
I should agree to interview...
with pro-Zionist
American media?
Because I think
Hezbollah...
is trying to broaden into
a political party right now,
so you care about what
you're thought of in America,
and in America
at this moment in time,
Hezbollah does not
have a face.
- That's why.
- Perhaps you approve
journalism objectivity,
and I see
the questions first.
Then I decide if I grant
the interview.
No.
We don't do that.
You've seen 60 Minutes
and Mike Wallace,
so you know our reputation
for integrity and objectivity.
You also know we are
the highest-rated, most-respected...
TV magazine news show
in America.
So, Mr. Wallace...
should he get on a plane or not?
Tell him I'll see him
day after tomorrow.
That's good.
That works.
You know, I want to ask you something.
I know it sounds odd, but...
Hello? Sheikh?
Hello? Sheikh?
- Norman?
- What? What?
Take your blindfold off.
Welcome to the world.
Fluctuating
all over the place.
Anywhere we shoot here, it's gonna
be portable gennies and we'll run cable.
- Hello?
- Mike, it's me.
We're on.
Hi, honey.
- Hi, Daddy.
- What's new?
- Miss Loughrey gave me a star today.
- Yeah? What for?
- For reading.
- That's great.
A little early for cartoons,
isn't it?
Okay.
Deborah? Debbie?
Oh, I didn't know
you were home.
It's early,
isn't it?
Gotta take Debbie to ballet.
Mommy!
Sweetheart, come on.
Come on.
- She was playing
with my Pooh doll again.
Slow down. Slow down. Slow down.
Breathe deep. Breathe deep.
Slow down, honey. Slow down.
Slow down.
Here we go.
Deep breaths.
- Deep breaths.
- She was playing with the Pooh doll.
Pooh's dusty, sweetheart.
He's dusty, and you breathed him in.
Okay? So, what's happening to you...
Look at me.
What's happening to you now
is cells called mass cells...
told your lungs, " Don't breathe
any more of that dust in."
And the airways in your lungs
are like branches,
and when the branches close up,
you get an asthmatic attack,
and we give you medicine,
and you get better.
Uh-huh? Okay?
Better already,
aren't you?
Okay, baby?
Can I go to dance tomorrow?
I-I'm better.
If you are, then I'll take Barbara
to soccer and take you to dance after.
I can take her.
Don't you have to
be at the office?
- Is there any more rice?
- Yes, it's on the stove.
Do you want more rice?
- Maybe later.
- How about you?
- I'll take some.
- Instant rice?
Can I go over to Jeanines house?
- I'm sorry, darling.
Have you seen my coffee mug?
- Try the car.
Um, what are
those boxes?
- I'm going to the store.
You need anything?
- What do you need at the store?
- Soy sauce.
- Right now?
That's my stuff
from the office.
Why did you take
your stuff from the office?
- I didn't want to leave it there.
- I don't understand.
I got fired
this morning.
Where else am I
gonna take it?
Why?
Who said?
Thomas Sandefur.
What are we
supposed to do?
What about our medical coverage?
What about our health?
What about our... car payments?
The payments on this house?
The severance agreement
includes cash payoffs over time...
and continuing
medical coverage.
Sure you don't need anything?
No, thank you.
Jeffrey?
I am very pleased to receive you
as my guest, Mr. Wallace.
- Well, thank you for having us.
- Think I got a problem with the gennie.
I gotta go outside.
Give me a hand with this,
will you?
Norman!
- He says, uh, you must not sit so close.
- What?
I can't conduct an interview
from back there.
You must move back
your chair.
Well, you tell him that when
I conduct an interview,
I sit anywhere
I damn please.
- There is no interview.
- You!
I'm talking to you! What the hell do
you think I am, a 78-year-old assassin?
You think I'm gonna karate him
to death with this notepad?
- Are you interpreting what I'm saying?
- Yes.
- We're there.
- Good. Well, ask him if Arabic
is his second language.
Don't interpret that. Hold it.
Hold it! Hold it!
Slow. Slow.
Sheikh, do you mind?
If you would just turn
your chair a little bit...
to face Mr. Wallace.
- Is that okay?
- Okay.
Are you ready, or do you
wanna keep fucking around...
and warm up some more?
- No. I've got my heart started.
- Okay.
All right, Todd.
Give me the three-button
on Mike, please.
Good. Good.
Okay, we are rolling.
- Okay, Mike.
- Sheikh Fadlallah.
Thank you so much for seeing us.
Are you a terrorist?
Mr. Wallace, I am
a servant of God.
A servant of God?
Really?
Americans believe that you...
as an Islamic fundamentalist...
that you are a leader who contributed
to the bombing of the U.S. Embassy.
Everybody thinks Canadian Mounties ride
horses and rescue ladies from rapids.
Mike, they backed locals
in Oka in a fight with Mohawks...
over building a golf course
on their burial site,
They beat up protesters at Kanasake...
- Where'd you hear that?
- Hello.
Oh, someone took a poll?
"Are all things Canadian boring?"
- It's Stuart. He's in Mexico City.
- Oh. Let me call you back.
Yeah, Stuart?
- What New York bank?
- Hey, Dad.
Will he go on camera and talk
about the Mexico City branch?
- Hey, Jake.
- Whose money are they laundering?
- No classes this morning?
- I don't have to be there till 10:30.
- Hey, Mom. Hello.
- Hi, sweetheart.
- Hello? Yeah.
- Do independent sources corroborate?
- Dad, you got a box out here.
- Let me see this a second.
- 'Cause I gotta know where
you're going at all times.
I can't. I've gotta fly
to Boston tomorrow.
- Bye-bye.
- "Ignition propensity."
You understand
any of this?
No.
Uh, this looks like
a table of temperatures.
- Who's this from?
- It's anonymous.
References to "P.M."
It's gotta be
Phillip Morris, huh?
Hmm. I have to
take a shower.
Yeah?
Hi. This is
Doug Oliver.
Oh, hi, Doug.
It's Lowell.
I'm doing this story on fire
safety, and people burning up
from falling asleep smoking.
I receive a shitload of scientific
papers from inside Phillip Morris.
Anonymous. You or anybody
in F.D.A. Know someone...
who can translate this stuff
into English for me?
Uh, yeah.
- Hello?
- Uh, Mr. Wigand, please?
Someone's calling
for Daddy, Mom.
- Oh. Thank you, Bob.
- Who's calling?
Uh, my name
is Lowell Bergman.
- Did you say "Berman"?
- No, Bergman. B-E-R-G-M-A-N.
- I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
- 60 Minutes?
- Yeah.
- 60 Minutes, the television show?
- Yes.
- He doesn't want to talk to you.
How does he know he doesn't
want to talk to me? He doesn't
know what I'm calling him about.
He doesn't care to know.
This is the Wigands'.
If you'd like to leave a message
or send a fax, start now.
This is Lowell Bergman with 60 Minutes,
and I'm doing a story...
on fire safety
and cigarettes.
I have scientific documents
from a tobacco company,
and I could use your help
as a consultant...
explaining these documents
to me.
Now, my number is
area code 510-555-0199.
I'll be there at this number
in ten minutes.
If you're curious
to meet me,
I'm gonna be in the lobby
of the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville...
reading The New York Times
tomorrow at 5:00.
Have you always lived in Louisville?
Mr. Bergman, what did you
want me to consult about?
Who's that?
That's room service.
They usually
knock first.
Come on in.
Over here, please.
- Thank you.
- How do you like your coffee? Black?
Black. Black.
I really don't have that much time.
Is there anything you want to know
about me, Mr. Wigand?
Like what?
Your sign?
I know what I
have to know.
Just so I know you know,
when I talk to people in confidence,
it stays that way.
How did a radical journalist
from Ramparts magazine end up at CBS?
I still do
the tough stories.
60 Minutes reaches
a lot of people.
Let me see
the documents.
This is a, um,
fire-safety product study
for Phillip Morris.
Burn rates, ignition propensity,
things of this nature.
I could very easily explain this
to you in layman's terms...
because it's from
another company.
- But that's as far as I go.
- As far as you go where?
This issue is
a drop in the bucket.
I can talk to you
about what's in here, but I...
I can't talk to you
about anything else.
I signed a confidentiality agreement.
I honor agreements.
Doesn't CBS have confidentiality
agreements, Mr. Bergman?
Between journalists and management,
yes, I believe they do.
But I don't take that seriously.
Where do you work?
Did work.
- Did work?
- How much would I get paid?
That you have to discuss
with CBS Business Affairs.
But for something like this, I would
say anywhere between ten, 12 thousand.
Should I just take
the documents now?
If you want to do it.
I worked as a, uh,
head of Research and Development
for Brown & Williamson.
Tobacco company.
I was a corporate
vice president.
Mr. Bergman.
President Assad of Syria said...
that difficult obstacles remain,
but that his country,
"looks forward to a great long peace
with Israel."
That's a Peabody, Mike.
When you're dead and buried, this is
the one they're gonna remember you by.
- Are you eating with us?
- Yeah.
- Bring a tie so they let us
in the front door.
Come on.
- Debbie!
- Hey, Lowell.
Oh, Bill. Main Justice is investigating
a major New York bank...
laundering narco dollars
out of their Mexico City branch.
- You want it for the news?
- What about you? You got a crew already?
- I'm gonna do a follow-up.
Catch you later.
- Okay.
- Debbie.
- How are you?
I want you to get Legal on a corporate
confidentiality agreement.
- Okay.
- Boundaries of their constraint,
Kentucky state law about...
- I want you to drop everything.
- Okay.
- I don't have any change.
You got some change?
- Oh, here.
Tony.
Mr. Wigand? You can go up now.
Sorry. I'm accepting
an award...
from the Retinitis
Pigmentosa Foundation.
It's gonna kill
the rest of my day.
So, have you had a chance
to play golf?
Jeff's a premier golfer.
What are you, a two handicap?
- Seven.
- And he gets out there...
and he has
five strokes on us.
He has more concentration
than anybody I've ever met.
It's spooky
how he can concentrate.
I'd rather play
than talk about it.
What did you
want to see me about?
I don't like
being back here.
Jeffrey says exactly
what's on his mind.
Most people consider
what they're saying... social skills.
Jeffrey just charges
right ahead.
Now, I know you understood the nature
of the confidentiality portion...
of your severance agreement
with Brown & Williamson.
- Chapter and verse.
- Yeah, I know you do.
You know, I came up
through sales.
One of the reasons
I was a great salesman...
was I never made a promise
I couldn't keep.
I knew that if I ever
broke my promise,
I'd suffer
the consequence.
Is that a threat?
We worked together for...
what was it, three years?
Now, the work we did here is
confidential, not for public scrutiny...
any more than
are one's family matters.
You're threatening
my family now too?
Now, don't be paranoid, Jeff.
About the direction of research here,
we may have had our differences, but...
Research. You declare
as a badge of honor you don't
even know what makes water boil.
Well, that's why
we hire scientists.
Okay.
I don't believe that you can
maintain corporate integrity...
without
confidentiality agreements.
I was paid well
for my work,
the health and welfare
benefits are good,
the severance package
is fair.
I have no intention of violating
my confidentiality agreement...
and disclosing that
which I said I wouldn't.
I appreciate
all that, Jeff,
but upon reflection, we've decided
to expand our zone of comfort with you,
so we've drafted a supplement
to your agreement.
It broadly defines and
expands in more detail...
what is confidential.
Nobody will be able
to say, "Well, hell's bells, Margaret,
I didn't know that
was a secret."
We're very serious
about protecting our interests.
We'd like you
to sign it.
And if I don't?
If we arrive at the conclusion
that you're acting in bad faith,
we would terminate right now
payoffs under your severance package,
you and your family's medical
benefits and initiate litigation
against you, Mr. Wigand.
- Dr. Wigand.
- Dr. Wigand.
If you've examined the document, you'll
see it's in your own best interest...
and you'll sign it.
What you're saying is it isn't enough
that you fired me for no good reason.
Now you question
my integrity?
On top of the humiliation
of being fired, you threaten me,
you threaten
my family.
It never crossed my mind
not to honor my agreement.
I will tell you, Mr. Sandefur...
and Brown & Williamson too...
Fuck me?
Well, fuck you!
I'm not sure
he got the message.
Oh, I think he did.
- Yeah.
- You fucked me!
- Who's this?
- Protect your sources?
You screwed me.
You sold me out.
- What are you talking about?
Where are you?
- Fuck you too!
Stay away from me.
You stay away from me!
Jeffrey, you forgot
the lunches!
- Mrs. Wigand?
- Jump in quick. Come on.
How do you do? I'm Lowell Bergman.
We spoke on the phone.
- Come here. I want to talk to you.
- Good. I want to talk to you.
- This is my house.
In front of my wife, my kids?
- I did not burn you.
I did not give you up
to anyone.
- What business do we have?
- I'm here to straighten
something out with you.
Right here, right now.
You haven't mentioned my name?
You haven't talked to anybody about me?
- What am I gonna mention your name for?
- Why are Brown & Williamson...
How the hell do I know about
Brown & Williamson?
It happened just after I talked to you.
I do not like coincidences.
Well, I don't like paranoid accusations.
I'm a journalist.
Think. Use your head.
How do I operate as a journalist?
By screwing the people...
who could provide me with information
before they provided me with it?
- You came all the way
down here to tell me that?
- No, I did not.
Big Tobacco
is a big story,
and you got something
important to say. I can tell.
But yes, I did. I came all
the way down here to tell you...
Story, no story...
fuck your story.
I don't burn people.
Ride with me while I
take the girls to school.
My little girl has acute asthma.
Deborah, my oldest daughter.
And I'm unemployed, so I have
to protect my medical coverage.
So I left them a message
this morning. Their expanded
confidentiality agreement...
I will sign it.
- They're afraid of you, aren't they?
- They should be.
Talk to me outside the zone
of your agreement.
- Like what?
- Like, uh, where'd you work
before Brown & Williamson?
Johnson &Johnson.
Union Carbide in Japan.
I was the general manager and director
of new products. I speak Japanese.
I was a director
of corporate development at Pfizer.
All health-related.
What else
outside the zone?
I don't know. Do you think the Knicks
are gonna make it to the semifinals?
- Just give me an example.
- Okay.
For example, um,
James Burke.
- C.E.O. Of Johnson &Johnson.
- Yeah.
When he found out that some lunatic
had put poison in Tylenol bottles,
he didn't argue
with the F.D.A.
He didn't even wait for the F.D.A.
To tell him. He just pulled Tylenol...
off every shelf of every store
right across America, instantly.
And then he developed a safety cap.
Because as a C.E.O., sure, he's
gotta be a great businessman, right?
But he's also
a man of science.
He's not gonna allow his company
to put on the shelf a product
that might hurt people.
Not like
the Seven Dwarfs.
- Seven Dwarfs?
- Seven C.E.O. S of Big Tobacco.
They got in front of Congress
that time. It was on television.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Swore under oath that
they know nothing about addiction...
It was on C-SPAN.
Yeah.
Okay, so, here you are.
You-You-You go to work for tobacco.
You come from corporate cultures
where research...
really creative thinking...
these are core values.
You go to tobacco.
Tobacco is a sales culture...
market and sell enormous volume,
go to a lot of golf tournaments.
The hell with everything else.
What are you doing?
- Why are you working
for tobacco in the first place?
- I can't talk about it.
The work I was supposed to do...
might have had some positive effect,
I don't know.
Could have been beneficial.
Mostly, I got paid a lot.
I took the money.
My wife was happy.
My kids had good medical,
good schools. Got a great house.
I mean, what the hell
is wrong with that?
Nothing's wrong with that. That's it.
You're making money.
You're providing for your family.
What could be wrong with that?
I always thought of myself as a man of
science, that's what's wrong with it.
Then you're in
a state of conflict, Jeff.
Because look,
here's how it lays out.
If you've got vital
insider stuff,
the American people, for their
welfare, really do need to know,
and you feel impelled
to disclose it...
and violate your agreement
in doing so, that's one thing.
On the other hand, if you want
to honor this agreement,
then that's simple...
you do so.
You say nothing,
you do nothing.
There's only one guy
who can figure that out for you,
and that's you
all by yourself.
I gotta go pick up the girls.
They only had a half a day.
I've heard virtually
all the... We touched on it...
- Yes or no, do you believe
nicotine is not addictive?
- Congressman,
cigarettes and nicotine clearly
do not meet the classic
definitions of addiction.
- There is no intoxication.
- We'll take that as no.
Again, time is short.
I think each of you believe
nicotine is not addictive...
and just would like to
have this for the record.
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.
I too believe
that nicotine...
He referred to this...
the Seven Dwarfs...
- What Seven Dwarfs?
- The seven C.E.O. Of Big Tobacco...
referred to this.
Said they should be afraid of him.
I assume afraid of what he could reveal.
Now you tell me. What does this guy
have to say that threatens these people?
Well, it isn't cigarettes
are bad for you.
- Hardly new news.
- No shit.
- What's this?
- What that is is tobacco's
standard defense.
It's the "we don't know"
litany.
Addiction? We believe not.
Disease? We don't know.
We take a bunch of leaves,
we roll them together, you smoke 'em.
After that, you're on your own.
We don't know.
So, that
tells me nothing.
- Besides, you'll never get
what he's got.
- Why not?
Because of this guy's
confidentiality agreement,
he's never gonna be able
to talk to you.
That's not good enough.
This guy is the top scientist...
in the number-three
tobacco company in America.
He's a corporate officer.
You never get whistle-blowers
from Fortune 500 companies.
This guy is
the ultimate insider.
He's got something to say. He wants
to say it. I want it on 60 Minutes.
Doesn't matter what he wants.
Am I missing something here?
- What do you mean, Mike?
- He's got a corporate secrecy agreement.
Give me a break.
This is a public health issue, like an
unsafe air frame on a passenger jet...
or some company dumping cyanide
into the East River.
Issues like that.
He can talk, we can air it.
They've got no right to hide behind
a corporate agreement. Pass the milk.
They don't need the right.
They got the money.
The unlimited checkbook.
That's how Big Tobacco wins...
every time
on everything.
They spend you to death.
$600 million a year in outside legal.
Chadbourne-Park, Ken Starr's firm,
Kirkland and Ellis.
Listen, G.M. And Ford,
they get nailed...
after 11 or 12 pickups
blow up, right?
- These clowns have never... I mean ever...
- Not even once.
Not even with hundreds of thousands
dying each year from an illness...
related to their product have ever
lost a personal injury lawsuit.
On this case, they'll issue gag orders,
sue for breach... anticipatory breach...
enjoin him, you, us,
his pet dog, the dog's veterinarian,
tie 'em up in litigation for ten
or 15 years, I'm telling you,
they bat a thousand.
Every time. He knows that.
That's why he's not gonna talk to you.
Okay, let's look through
the looking glass the other way.
What do you mean?
We got a guy who wants to talk,
but he's constrained.
- What if he were compelled to talk?
- Oh, torture. Great ratings.
What do you mean, "compelled"?
I mean, compelled
by a, uh, Justice Department.
State courts.
Be a witness.
That would cut through any
confidentiality agreement, wouldn't it?
- What does that do?
- What do you mean, what does it do?
What I mean is like, how does it cut
through the confidentiality agreement?
Because he has to, uh,
reveal it in a court of law.
It's on record. It's out.
It's no secret anymore.
So how can they restrain his speech
or retaliate? It's out in the world.
If you could engineer it into the
court record, you might have something.
They would have a hell of a time
trying to restrain his speech
then, wouldn't they?
Yeah, but what venue? And where does
he get... Does he have killer attorneys?
I don't think he's got
any attorneys.
He's gonna need attorneys who aren't
afraid of risking years of litigation...
and millions of dollars
of their own dough in legal costs.
What do you say, Mike?
What do you think?
Even if he gets
the defense team,
will he go for it?
You're awfully
overqualified, Dr. Wigand.
I'm trying to start
a new career.
I believe I could be
a good teacher.
Let me give it
some thought.
And not a lot of companies in the health
care field hire ex-tobacco scientists.
That's it.
It's where
our babies were born.
Debbie took her first steps
right there on...
In the grass.
- I didn't plan on this.
- Hey, hey, hey.
Come on. Come on.
We can make this
work for us. Okay?
It's just...
It's not...
It's just...
It's a smaller scale.
Simpler, easier.
More time.
More time together.
More time
with the kids.
More time for us.
Okay? It's just...
Can you imagine me
coming home from some job...
feeling good
at the end of the day?
This is gonna be better.
This is gonna be better.
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- Back to...
- Welcome back.
Hey, baby.
What's wrong?
Who's that outside,
Daddy?
- Did you see somebody
or did you hear them?
- I heard him.
- Where?
- In the backyard.
Sit at Daddy's desk, okay?
Why don't you sit up at the desk.
All right?
Get out some paper,
and draw me a picture. Okay?
What are you gonna draw me, baby?
An animal? Something like that?
You stay down here until Daddy
gets back, all right, Barbara?
You stay down here.
You almost got
your damn head blown off.
Daddy!
It was just a raccoon, baby.
Nothin'.
They're nocturnal.
You know what that means?
That means that they
only come out at nighttime.
- Yeah.
- Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand.
- Yeah.
- Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand.
Is it too late?
No, no, it's okay. I...
How-How's the new place?
The new place?
New.
- You okay?
- Sure.
I was thinking of
calling you tomorrow anyway.
- Uh, how's your kids,
uh, handling the new house?
- Good.
- You got kids?
- We have a couple.
One's hers, one's mine.
Everybody uses a different name.
Modern marriage.
Uh, how's Liane?
Uh, she's okay. Uh...
Hold on a minute.
Lowell.
Somebody may be following me. I-I don't
know. They came on the property.
What do you mean, following you?
Did you call the police?
I-I don't wanna be paranoid.
I mean...
- Maybe it's a game.
Some kind of mind game.
- What do you really think?
I don't know what the fuck
I really think.
Are they doing it?
Is some crank doing it?
Are they doing it
to make me feel paranoid?
Are they doing it for real and don't
give a shit what I think? I don't know.
- I don't fuckin' know.
- Jeffrey, describe for me...
in detail what happened.
Well...
No. Look, I mean, there was
a footprint. Forget it.
It's probably
not important at all.
You know, I got a job now. I'm teaching
high school. Japanese and Chemistry.
Uh, so, uh, what were you
calling about?
- You called me.
- No, you said you were gonna
call me tomorrow.
- So, what about?
- Oh, yes, yes, yes. I did.
I wanted to talk to you.
I wanted to hook up with you,
talk to you about what we were
talking about in your car.
Okay.
It makes you feel good,
putting what you know to use?
- How'd you know that, Lowell?
- It's obvious, isn't it?
Hello?
Are you there?
Yeah.
Look, um...
Thanks for talking.
I'm sorry I woke you up.
- I didn't know.
- It's okay.
Lowell.
Who is this?
Do not call here!
Do not...
What are you
gonna get us?
Tempura.
The Internet said you did
graduate work at Wisconsin,
then went to U.C. La Jolla
with Professor Herbert?
- Marcus...
- Marcuse. Yeah.
He was my mentor.
He had a major influence
on the New Left in the late '60s.
And on me, personally.
- Next to your father?
- My father?
What the hell's that got
to do with my father?
I, uh...
Is that why you became a journalist?
Then you get to ask all the questions?
You charge by the hour?
My father was a...
A mechanical engineer.
Most ingenious man
I ever knew.
My father left us
when I was five years old.
He was not the most ingenious man
I ever knew.
Let's get back to Brown & Williamson.
If you decide to go on 60 Minutes,
I gotta know everything
about why you were fired.
- Why?
- They're gonna dig up
stuff from your past.
They're gonna throw it at you.
I gotta know what they're gonna throw.
You understand?
I drink.
- Couple of occasions
more than I should have.
- Um-hmm.
I was cited for shoplifting
once, but it was a mistake.
Pushed Liane one time. We were both
stressed out because of the pressure.
She went to her mother's.
I got, uh, fired,
because, uh,
when I get angry, I have
difficulty censoring myself,
and I don't like
to be pushed around.
I'm not pushing you around.
I'm asking you questions.
I'm just a commodity
to you, aren't I?
I could be anything, right? Anything
worth putting on between commercials.
To a network, probably,
we're all commodities.
To me, you're not a commodity.
What you are is important.
You go public, and 30 million people
hear what you gotta say,
nothing... I mean nothing...
will ever be the same again.
- You believe that?
- No.
You should. Because when
you're done the judgment...
is gonna go down in the court
of public opinion, my friend.
And that's...
the power you have.
- You believe that?
- I believe that?
- Yes, I believe that.
- You believe that...
- because you get information out
to people, something happens?
- Yes.
Maybe that's just what you've been
telling yourself all these years...
to justify having a good job.
Having status.
Maybe for the audience
it's just voyeurism, something
to do on a Sunday night.
Maybe it won't
change a fuckin' thing,
and people like myself
and my family...
are left hung out to dry,
used up, broke, alone.
Are you talking to me, or did somebody
else just walk in here? I never...
Don't evade a choice you gotta make
by questioning my reputation...
or 60 Minutes
with this cheap skepticism.
I have to put my family's welfare
on the line here, my friend.
- What are you putting up?
You're putting up words.
- "Words."
While you've been dicking around some
fucking company golf tournaments,
I've been out in the world
givin' my word...
and backing it up
with action.
Now, are you gonna go
and do this thing or not?
I said I'd call the kids
before they went to bed.
Stringer was supposed to be shooting
B- roll on street cops in New Orleans.
- What's with all the horses?
- Camera guy's got
a thing about mounted police.
Don't any of these guys
ride in cars? Walk?
- How long are these things?
- What was he saying?
Hello. Yes, I'm trying
to reach Mr. Richard Scruggs.
This is Richard Scruggs.
Can you hold on
a second, please?
Lowell, got him
on the phone.
- Hello, I'm Lowell Bergman.
- Hold on.
Mobile Approach, this is
Leo-November-643. Over.
Request a flight level
of 220...
on a heading
of 284 degrees. Over.
- Mr. Bergman?
- Yes, I'm right here.
- Could you call me back on a hard line?
- All right.
- Area code 212-555-0199.
- I'll call you then.
What do we do with that?
I don't know.
Richard Scruggs.
You filed a lawsuit against tobacco
on behalf of the state of Mississippi.
- Did you not?
- That's right.
I'm working with someone now
who's the former head of
research at Brown & Williamson.
Former corporate officer there.
What's your interest
in this, Mr. Bergman?
Well, he may tape
an interview with us,
and we believe if his testimony
showed up in a court record first,
it would free him up from his
confidentiality agreement
and give him some protection.
It could work. If it's public record,
it's public record.
Yeah, and he's gonna need
legal representation.
He sure as hell will.
Has he decided
to go public?
Because let me tell ya.
We been doin' this for three years now,
and we've worked with a lot of corporate
cases involving whistle-blowers.
So we know Big Tobacco will do
everything in their power to stop him.
So is your man
truly committed?
Well, actually, no... Well, he's
on the fence. That's the point.
Well, we'd certainly be interested
in making his acquaintance.
But without knowing
what he's gonna do...
Would you want him to call you, or you
wanna call him? How do you wanna do it?
It would be better
if he called us.
- Yeah. Okay.
- All right?
Okay. Thank you.
Shit.
We need cops on the streets.
We don't need them on horses.
- I don't know what he was thinking.
- For God's sake.
- This guy got a horse fetish?
- All right, all right.
Get me, uh...
Get me to New Orleans this afternoon.
I'll shoot
the fucking thing myself!
- Have a good one.
- All right.
What are you cooking?
- I'm cooking pasta primavera.
- Oh, I love that stuff.
I'm going to
have to go downstairs.
Jeffrey!
Jeffrey! Jeffrey!
Jeffrey! Jeffrey!
- What happened?
- Dispatcher received a call
of shots fired in the area.
Uniforms arrived on the scene, found
this white male subject shot to death.
- Was it gang related?
- There's no indication...
as far as a tag or an advertisement.
Yeah.
They're terrorizing us.
Death threats. My family, my kids.
Whoa. What are you
talking about?
- Someone put a bullet in my mailbox.
- Jeff, call the F.B.I.
- Right away.
- They do this with impunity.
- Jeff...
- They get to go home at night.
What does it cost these people
to do this to us? Nothing!
My girls are crying.
So fuck them.
- I wanna tape. I'm done...
- I heard you.
I gotta arrange
for a legal defense first.
I gotta get you to testify in court,
get it on public record.
Then hold it off the air until you
got that, but I wanna go to New York,
and I wanna go on the record...
right now.
- Good. But, Jeff...
- I'll call them, Lowell.
Did you handle the round,
Mr. Wigand?
Yes, I'm afraid I did.
We won't be able to lift
usable prints.
Do you own a gun,
Mr. Wigand?
- A gun? Yes.
- What caliber is your gun?
What caliber is my gun?
Yes, sir.
What caliber is your gun?
What does that have to do
with the price of tea in China?
You think I put the bullet
in the mailbox myself?
If we could
take a look, Mr. Wigand.
Why do you keep this gun?
I don't think it's unconstitutional
yet to own a gun. I'm a target shooter.
That bullet was for a.38 caliber.
Do you own a.38?
Yes, I do. A.38 Target Master
in my gun safe downstairs.
A.45 Gold Cup,
a.22 target pistol. So what?
Do you have a history
of emotional problems, Mr. Wigand?
Yeah. Yes, I do.
Yes, I get extremely emotional when
assholes put bullets in my mailbox.
I didn't tell you that so you could
pick it up and take it away.
- Jeffrey!
- What's going on?
I told them you had an e-mail
death threat that told you...
if you didn't shut the "F" up,
they were gonna kill you.
You can't take that. It's personal
property. My personal correspondence,
letters to my brother, my will.
You all right?
That computer has
every single...
You all right, Mr. Wigand?
We need to take a look
at your gun safe, Mr. Wigand.
I'm telling you... your agents
in that office are acting improperly.
Now who are they
trying to protect?
Let me, tell you something,
Lowell. Look, look.
You're talking about two agents
in a regional office in Louisville.
I got the goddamned Unabomber
threatening to blow up L.A.X.
I gotta move 45 agents
from all over the country into L.A.
All right? When I get a chance,
I'll give it a look.
You better take a good
look because I'm getting two things:
Pissed off and curious!
Now, any of these guys been offered jobs
in corporate security after they retire?
Either one of those guys got
ex-agent pals already in those jobs?
Like, for instance, their ex-supervisor
who's already at Brown & Williamson...
as we fuckin' speak!
- I'll give it a look.
- You're getting my drift?
I'll give it a look.
So is everything okay?
- How are the rooms? Comfortable?
- Yes, very.
Do you know,
I enjoy your work so much.
When you're talkin' to somebody,
I always feel like I'm right there.
Thank you for saying that.
Do you think we could
talk about the taping?
Tomorrow's taping? Just so we
can get it out of the way and order.
Yeah, well, questions will go
towards what work you did there,
why you were fired and other...
Taping?
- What are you taping?
- I'm doin' an interview.
An interview?
Do you know what
they will do to us?
I thought we...
I'm sorry.
Liane, this is
a preliminary...
You didn't
tell her we were taping?
What did she think she was
coming to New York for?
Talk about it, think about it.
I had a plan to, uh, ease her into it,
but I really...
I don't know how to do that.
Oh, man.
Who are these people?
Ordinary people under
extraordinary pressure, Mike.
What the hell you expect,
grace and consistency?
Five, four, three, two...
You heard Mr. Sandefur say...
before Congress that he believed
nicotine was not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur
perjured himself...
because I watched those
testimonies very carefully.
All of us did. I mean,
there was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O. 's
up there swearing.
Part of the reason
I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation
clearly misstated...
at least within Brown & Williamson's
representation...
clearly misstated what is common
language within the company.
We are in
the nicotine delivery business.
And that's what
cigarettes are for.
Delivery device for nicotine.
A delivery device
for nicotine.
Put it in your mouth, light it up
and you're going to get your fix.
- You're gonna get your fix.
- You're saying that
Brown & Williamson...
manipulates and adjusts
the nicotine fix...
not by artificially
adding nicotine,
but by enhancing
the effect of nicotine...
through the use
of chemical elements such as ammonia.
The process is known
as impact boosting.
While not spiking nicotine,
they clearly manipulate it.
There is extensive use of this
technology, known as ammonia chemistry.
It allows for the nicotine to be
more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain
and central nervous system.
The straw that broke the camel's
back for me and really put me
in trouble with Sandefur...
was a compound called coumarin.
When I came on board
at B&W,
they had tried to transition
from coumarin to a similar flavor...
that would give the same taste
and had been unsuccessful.
I wanted it out immediately.
I was told...
that it would effect sales, so
I should mind my own business.
I constructed a memo to Mr. Sandefur
indicating I could not in conscience...
continue with coumarin
in a product that we now knew...
we had documentation... was similar to
coumadin, a lung-specific carcinogen.
And you sent the document
forward to Sandefur?
I sent the document
forward to Sandefur.
I was told that we would
continue to work on a substitute.
We weren't going to remove it
as it would impact sales
and that that was his decision.
In other words,
you are charging Sandefur...
and Brown & Williamson...
with ignoring health
considerations consciously?
- Most certainly.
- And on March 24,
Thomas Sandefur,
C.E.O. Of Brown & Williamson,
had you fired.
And the reason
he gave you?
Poor communication skills.
And you wish
you hadn't come forward?
You wish you hadn't
blown the whistle?
Yeah, there are times
I wish I hadn't done it.
There are times I feel com...
compelled to do it.
If you'd asked me...
would I do it again,
do I think it's worth it?
Yeah, I think it's worth it.
- Hi.
- Hi.
My name is Jeff Wigand.
You can call me, uh,
Mr. Wigand.
You can call me
Dr. Wigand.
I have a Ph.D. In biochemistry
and endocrinology.
You can call me Jeff.
Anything else you want to call me,
you'll have to do so in private.
Um, okay.
I find chemistry
to be magical.
I find it an adventure.
An exploration into the building
blocks of our physical universe.
So how many of you have
taken chemistry before?
Okay. I've never taught it
before, so we're gonna be fine.
Our first experiment
is gonna be measuring...
the molecular weight
of butane.
He's on line three.
- Hello?
- Mr. Scruggs? Jeff Wigand.
Lowell Bergman said
I should give you a call.
My co-counsel,
Ron Motley and I,
have filed a lawsuit against
the tobacco industry on behalf
of the state of Mississippi...
to get the state
reimbursed Medicaid costs...
for treatin' people
with smoking-related illness.
If you'd be interested
in talkin' to us,
we'd certainly like
to talk to you.
When should we do this?
Who the hell are you?
What are you doing in my house?
- It's okay, Jeff. It's okay.
- Mr. Wigand, you need to speak to...
You've got
your own security now.
You know, Lowell,
I can't... I can't afford to...
No, they volunteered.
A friend owns a large security company.
How're you doing, Mr. Wigand?
I'm John Telafarro.
There'll be three of us
on the detail.
I'm going to the store. Please explain
our new houseguests to your children.
Mrs. Wigand's leaving the house.
Uh, I called Richard Scruggs
in Mississippi.
- I heard.
- I'm gonna be a witness for them
in their litigation.
So I'm gonna fly to Pascagoula,
give a deposition.
I know. I'm gonna
go there tonight.
You all right?
- Did you have a good day?
- Yes, I did. I had a great day.
- Uh, coffee, Lowell?
- Yeah, all right.
Wanna play that game
we were playing before?
You know, I think you
got it up to five.
I was ahead of you,
and then you just...
Please don't wash your hands
in the sink.
Where should I wash them?
Use the bathroom.
What's the difference?
That's for food.
Leave it on.
Just leave it on! Okay?
I don't think
I can do this.
I want to stand by
my husband.
I really do, Jeffrey,
but...
I don't think I can
do this anymore.
I am so sorry.
Can we talk about this
when I get back?
Yes, Jeffrey.
It's okay.
Jeff!
You've been served.
Now, what this one is is
a temporary restraining order,
a gag order,
issued by a Kentucky court.
Jeff Wigand,
Michael Moore.
Good to meet you,
Dr. Wigand.
Mike's our attorney general
down here.
I was just explaining to Jeff
they got a Kentucky court...
to issue a gag order
to stop his deposition today.
- Right.
- Now,
they tried to get
the Mississippi court to honor it,
but the judge threw it out.
However, for you, there is a more
perilous effect of the gag order.
Dr. Wigand, you do understand
what can happen, don't you?
I'm not free to testify...
here.
That's right. If you violate
the Kentucky order,
when you
step foot back in Kentucky...
they can find you in contempt
and they can incarcerate you.
And you ought to know that.
- Jail.
- Possibly, yes.
That is one of the possible consequences
of your testifying here today.
That's right.
How does...
How does one go to jail?
Wh-What does my family do?
Go on welfare?
If my wife has to work,
who's gonna look after the kids?
Put food on the table?
I mean, my children need me.
If I'm not teaching,
there's no medical.
No medical, even on co-pay,
that's like... Tuition...
Dr. Wigand, listen.
You may not be able
to do this thing.
As I understand from Dick,
you're our key witness,
and I hope
you don't withdraw.
Um, I guess we'd all
understand if you did.
Guys, I gotta go.
I'm gonna be late for court.
I'll see y'all later.
Dr. Wigand, good luck.
I know what you're facing,
Jeff.
And I think I know
how you're feeling.
In the navy, I flew
A-6's off carriers.
In combat, events have
a duration of seconds.
Sometimes minutes.
But what you're going through
goes on day in, day out,
whether you're
ready for it or not.
Week in, week out.
Month after month
after month.
Whether you're up
or whether you're down.
You're assaulted
psychologically.
You're assaulted
financially,
which is its own special kind
of violence because it's
directed at your kids.
What school can you afford?
How will that
affect their lives?
You're asking yourself,
"Will that limit
what they may become?"
You feel your whole family's future
is compromised,
held hostage.
I do know how it is.
You attract a crowd.
Yeah.
Great.
I heard about
the Kentucky gag order.
I don't know what to do.
Hold on a second.
Would you please ask Mr. Motley if he
expects his witness to appear or not?
I can't seem to find
the criteria to decide.
It's too big a decision to make
without being resolved in my own mind.
Maybe things have changed.
A lot's changed.
You mean since this morning?
No, I mean since whenever.
Fuck it.
Let's go to court.
Dr. Wigand would like to leave now.
Okay, Jeff. I'm gonna sit you down
at that table over there.
I want to start
as fast as possible.
I don't want to give them a chance to
get another restraining order. Okay?
- Let's go.
- Good luck, Doc.
Please stand.
Raise your right hand.
Do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
- I do.
- You may be seated.
You understand, Dr. Wigand,
you are under oath?
This is a sworn deposition.
There's no judge. It's not a trial.
Will you state your name
for the record?
Jeffrey S. Wigand.
R-E-Y. W-I-G-A-N-D.
Got any idea what's
going on in there?
No, I don't have
a clue.
- That is correct.
- In other words, it acts as a drug,
- Object to the form of the question.
- It acts as a drug...
- Object to the form...
- It acts as a drug...
- Object!
- Is there an echo in here?
Your objection's been recorded.
She typed it into her little machine
over there. It's on the record.
So now I'll proceed
with my deposition of my witness.
- Does it act as a drug?
- Dr. Wigand!
I am instructing you...
not to answer that question.
In accordance to the terms of
the contractual obligations...
undertaken by you...
not to disclose
any information...
about your work at the Brown
& Williamson Tobacco Company.
And in accordance
with the force and effect...
of the temporary
restraining order...
that has been
entered against you...
by the court
in the state of Kentucky.
That means you don't talk.
Mr. Motley, we have rights here.
Oh, you've got rights.
And lefts.
Ups and downs and middles.
So what? You don't get
to instruct anything around here!
This is not North Carolina,
not South Carolina, nor Kentucky.
This is the sovereign state
of Mississippi's proceeding.
Wipe that smirk off your face!
Dr. Wigand's deposition
will be part of this record!
And I'm gonna take my witness' testimony
whether the hell you like it or not!
Answer the question,
Doctor.
Yes. It produces
a physiological response, which
meets the definition of a drug.
Um, nicotine
is associated with...
impact, satisfaction.
It has a pharmacological effect that
crosses the blood-brain barrier intact.
Thank you, Doctor. Thank you.
One of the reasons
I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation
clearly...
Run that Sandefur piece
on "nicotine's not addictive."
Run that on camera, then cut right to
Wigand with "I believe they perjured..."
Then go wide to the C.E.O. S
all taking the oath.
Then back on Jeff...
and play the pause after
the word "felt" on the B-side.
Hell of a show, Mike.
Explosive material.
- It went great in Mississippi, Mike.
- Good.
- I heard Wigand's deposition got sealed.
- Yeah.
They argued that he was going
to reveal the secret formula
of Kools to the world.
Sealed doesn't hurt Scruggs litigation,
and since we're the only ones
with the story, I believe
we're sitting on an exclusive.
I like that.
Corporate has some questions.
We've got a meeting at "Black Rock"
first thing in the morning.
- When's the air date?
- Lowell, Sharon's on line three.
- Tell her I'll call her back in ten.
- Here we go.
That they had long
known that the nicotine in tobacco...
is an addictive drug despite their
public statements to the contrary.
Like the testimony before Congress
of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief
executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur
perjured himself...
because I watched those
testimonies very carefully.
All of us did.
There was this whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s
up there all swearing.
Part of the reason
I'm here is that I felt...
that their representation
clearly misstated...
what is common language
within the company.
We are in the nicotine
delivery business.
There is extensive use of this
technology, known as ammonia chemistry.
It allows for the nicotine to be
more rapidly absorbed in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain
and central nervous system.
That's what cigarettes are for.
- Delivery device for nicotine.
A delivery device
for nicotine. Put it in your mouth,
light it up and
you're going to get your fix.
You're going to get your fix.
- Shall I send for coffee?
Sorry I'm late.
- No, we're fine.
- Are you sure?
- Yeah.
All right. I thought
we'd get together...
because there's
a legal concept...
that has been getting
some new attention recently.
Tortious interference.
If two people have an agreement,
like a confidentiality agreement,
and one of them breaks it because they
are induced to do so by a third party,
the third party can be sued
for damages for interfering.
Hence, tortious interference.
"Interfering"?
That's what we do.
I think what we're trying to tell you
is that it happens all the time.
This is a news organization. People are
always telling us things they shouldn't.
We have to verify if it's true
and in the public interest.
And if it is, we air it.
And after we corroborate it.
That's why we've never lost
a lawsuit and run a classy show.
- Anything else?
- And 60 Minutes' verification
is exact and precise.
And I don't think it would hurt
to make sure you're right on this one.
Why? You think we have liability?
What's the CBS News position,
Eric?
There's a possibility.
It's rather remote.
But one we
have to check on, Mike.
I've retained outside counsel
to do exactly that...
on a segment, I might add,
that's already rife with problems.
What does that mean?
"Rife with..."
I'm told unusual promises
were made to Wigand.
No, only that we would hold his story
until it was safe for him.
And I'm told there are questions
as to our star witness' veracity.
His "veracity" was good enough
for the state of Mississippi.
Our standards have to be
higher than anyone else's,
because we are the standard
for everybody else.
Well, as a "standard," I'll hang with
"is this guy telling the truth?"
Well, with tortious interference,
I'm afraid...
the greater the truth,
the greater the damage.
- Come again?
- They own...
the information he's disclosing.
The truer it is,
the greater
the damage to them.
If he lied, he didn't
disclose their information,
and the damages are smaller.
- Is this Alice in Wonderland?
- You said "on this one."
What about this one?
If this holds up...
And it very well may not, Mike.
But if it did
and we aired this segment,
and CBS was sued
by Brown & Williamson,
I think we could be
at grave risk.
- How grave?
- Well, at the end of the day,
because of your segment,
the Brown & Williamson
Tobacco Company...
could own CBS.
Oh. You know,
I am sorry,
but I'm due upstairs.
Is CBS Corporate
telling CBS News...
"Do not go to air
with this story"?
You're getting ahead of yourself.
We're all in this together.
We're all CBS.
We'll find out soon.
Thank you, gentlemen.
"Tortious interference."
That sounds like a disease
caught by a radio.
- Lunch?
- Sure.
Don't worry.
We call the shots around here.
Hello?
Debbie, it's me. I want
you to check some filings,
and give me John Wilson's number
at Bear-Stearn.
- What now?
- Kluster's coming over.
Hello, Lowell, Mike.
Don.
There has been so much soul searching
about this Wigand.
I've decided we should cut
an alternate version of
the show without his interview.
I've decided we should cut
an alternate version of
the show without his interview.
So what happened to Ms. Caperelli's
checking with outside counsel first?
- All that crap?
- That's happening.
Hopefully, we won't have to use
the alternate, but we should
have it in the can.
- I'm not touching my film.
- I'm afraid you are.
- No, I'm not.
- We're doing this
with or without you, Lowell.
If you like, I can assign
another producer to edit your show.
Since when has the, uh,
paragon of
investigative journalism...
allowed lawyers to determine
the news content on 60 Minutes?
It's an alternate version.
So what if we have
an alternate version?
And I don't think our being cautious
is so damned unreasonable.
So now, if you will
excuse me, gentlemen,
Mr. Rather's been complaining
about his chair again.
Before you go,
I discovered this.
S.E.C. Filing for the sale of CBS
Corporation to Westinghouse Corporation.
- What?
- Yeah, I heard rumors.
It's not a rumor. It's a sale.
If Tisch can unload CBS...
for $81 a share
to Westinghouse,
and then is
suddenly threatened...
with a multi-billion dollar
lawsuit from Brown & Williamson,
that could screw up the sale,
could it not?
- What are you implying?
- I'm not implying. I'm quoting.
Uh, " More vested interests. Persons
who will profit from this merger.
"Ms. Helen Caperelli, general counsel
of CBS News, 3.9 million.
"Mr. Eric Kluster,
president of CBS News,
Are you suggesting that
she and Eric are influenced by money?
No, no, of course they're not
influenced by money. They work for free.
And you are a volunteer
executive producer.
CBS does not do that. And you're
questioning our journalistic integrity.
No, I'm questioning
your hearing.
You hear "reasonable"
and "tortious interference."
I hear "potential Brown
& Williamson lawsuit...
jeopardizing the sale
of CBS to Westinghouse."
I hear "Shut the segment down.
Cut Wigand loose.
Obey orders and fuck off."
That's what I hear.
- You're exaggerating.
- I am?
You pay me
to go get guys like Wigand,
to draw him out, to get him to trust
us, to get him to go on television.
I do. I deliver him.
He sits. He talks.
He violates his own fucking
confidentiality agreement.
And he's only the key witness in the
biggest public health reform issue,
maybe the biggest,
most expensive...
corporate malfeasance case
in U.S. History.
And Jeffrey Wigand,
who's out on a limb,
does he go on television
and tell the truth?
Yes.
Is it newsworthy?
Yes.
Are we gonna air it?
Of course not. Why?
Because he's not
telling the truth? No.
Because he is telling the truth.
That's why we're not gonna air it.
And the more truth he tells,
the worse it gets.
You are a fanatic,
an anarchist. You know that?
If we can't have a whole show, then
I want half a show rather than no show.
But, oh, no. Not you. You
won't be satisfied unless you're
putting the company at risk!
What are you? Are you a businessman
or are you a newsman?
Because that happens to be
what Mike and I...
and some other people
around here do for a living.
- Lowell...
- Put the corporation at risk?
Give me a fucking break!
These people are
putting our whole reason...
- for doing what we do on the line!
- Lowell!
What?
I'm with Don
on this.
What's wrong?
They're killing
the Wigand interview.
- What?
- They're pretending it's process.
That's bullshit. It's foregone.
What are you and Mike
gonna do?
I'm alone on this.
- Oh, baby.
- Yeah.
It's Jeffrey Wigand.
Jeffrey.
How are you?
How's the family?
Okay?
- There is... There is no family.
- What do you mean, "there is no family"?
Uh, Liane has filed for divorce.
And, so,
I've moved out.
I see the girls
a couple of days a week.
- Where are you staying now?
- Our favorite hotel, honey.
I checked into room 930.
Odd choice, huh?
I don't know how
to say this,
Jeff, except to just
say it right out.
So, uh, I'll say it.
They do not want to air it.
- What?
- B&W may have threatened litigation.
CBS is on the block.
- But you, I mean... I know how you...
- No.
No, what?
I do not think that you know for me
what it is to walk in my shoes.
For my kids
to have seen it,
for them to know why I've
put them through what I did.
The public airing of that,
the testament to why I did what I did.
You're telling me it's not
gonna see the light of day?
Jeff.
Mrs. Wigand?
It hasn't been Mrs. Wigand
for some time.
I'm an investigator, and I was
wondering if I could ask you a
couple of questions about that.
All right.
Um, seven months
after we were married,
we found out that I had
multiple sclerosis.
And you had a daughter, Diane...
Tommy Sandefur told me himself.
He's not going to allow Brown
& Williamson to be demonized
to the American public.
So I told Pete Jennings.
And I... Hold on.
You had multiple sclerosis.
You had a small child to raise.
Uh, mention that part in the
executive summary and in the chapters.
First wife
and estrangement of daughter.
So I was telling Pete, I said,
"You've been taken in by this guy."
The divorce was something
that we both wanted.
He's a shoplifter.
He's a convicted
shoplifter.
So, um, what are you
gonna do?
What do you think I'm gonna do?
Quit in protest?
I'm not gonna do that.
You're taking "no"
for an answer?
No, I'm not gonna take
"no" for an answer. No.
You're not?
What are you doing?
I'm staying right here, doing my job.
Fighting to get my show on the air.
You don't like it?
Hey, I tell you what?
Fire my ass.
End up in a high-profile lawsuit with
Lowell, the First Amendment martyr?
I don't think so.
Take a look at this.
This is a summary of a dossier
that's being prepared.
He wouldn't lie
about his whole life.
Who's gonna believe him
about anything he says?
The Wall Street Journal is doing
a major story, and, I think, the Post.
You backed the wrong horse.
The version without the interview
is gonna air the week after next.
What was that about?
- Get me Wigand.
- Sure.
What the fuck is this?
Fuck!
You never told me
you were married before.
- That you had a daughter.
- How is that any of your business?
That is not something
that you people need to know.
Oh, you know what we do
or do not need to know?
- Since when have you become
a media expert?
- What do you wanna do, Lowell?
- Look up my ass too?
- Oh, for God's sake.
- You're not even on this anymore.
What do you care?
- Jeff, wake the fuck up!
Everybody is on the line here.
If they catch you in a lie,
they can paint everything with
that brush, you understand?
- Everything you say.
- I told the truth.
Everything you say.
And I can't defend you, man,
with one hand tied
behind my back...
because you keep from me
what they can discover.
And they will discover
everything. Believe me.
I was young!
I was young!
Confused. We didn't
handle it the right way.
- She sued you for back payments
of child support?
- She did not sue me.
We had a dispute over money. I settled
it. She dropped the complaint.
- Any other questions?
- Yes. Did you lie...
about being on the American
judo team in the Olympics?
- What?
- Some public relations guy...
got hold of a tape of an interview
where you're saying...
you were on the American
judo team in the Olympics.
What kind of shit is this?
I... I was...
I was not on the team.
I sparred with the Olympic team.
- Okay?
- All right. ABC Telemarketing Company?
- ABC...
- ABC Telemarketing Company.
The can opener!
A 39.95 can opener!
I cancelled payment.
It was junk!
You ever bounce a check, Lowell?
You ever look at another woman's tits?
You ever cheat a little
on your taxes?
Whose life, if you look at it under
a microscope, doesn't have any flaws?
Well, that's the whole point, Jeffrey.
That's the whole point.
Anyone's, everyone's.
They are gonna look under every rock,
dig up every flaw,
every mistake you've ever made.
They are going to distort and exaggerate
everything you've ever done, man.
- Don't you understand?
- What does this have to do
with my testimony?
- That's not the point...
- What does it have to do
with my testimony?
- I told the truth!
It's true and provable!
- It's not about...
That's not the fucking point,
whether you told the truth or not!
Hello?
I told the truth.
I told the truth.
I gotta teach class. I gotta go.
- I gotta teach class.
- And I gotta refute every
fucking accusation made...
in this report before
the Wall Street Journal runs.
I am trying to protect you,
man.
I hope you improve
your batting average.
They're cutting the interest rate,
and I have that great feature...
- Hello?
- It's Lowell.
Are you guys planning to do a piece on
a former top executive in Big Tobacco?
- You caught me in a news meeting.
- Are you, are you not, Charlie?
You bet we are,
and I can't talk to you now.
- We gotta hook up.
- Sure. Where?
- P.J.'s.
- I'll be there.
Yeah, I got it.
Five hundred pages of it.
They looked in every corner
of this guy's life,
from the spousal abuse charge,
to shoplifting, to a traffic ticket
he got once for running a red light.
It's Terry Lenzner's outfit,
I.G.I. Jack, listen to me.
Their strategy: Discredit
this guy, ruin his reputation
in the Wall Street Journal...
and then nobody will ever listen
to what he's got to say about tobacco.
He's dead unless I can
get this thing knocked down.
Make it even
a little more attractive.
I don't know if you're
ever gonna get paid.
- Is there any truth to any of it?
- That's a good question.
"Is there any truth to any of it?"
I doubt it.
- What's the deadline?
- Soon.
- Fax me the summary.
- That's great, Jack.
- Hey. How are you? Hey, listen.
- Hey.
I hear you guys are sitting
on something sensational over there.
- Really? Hi, June.
- Oh, hi, baby.
- Catch you later.
- Okay. Take care.
- When's your deadline?
- Monday.
- Push it.
- What? Forget it.
It's a smear campaign,
Charlie.
- It's drawn from
a selectively circulated...
- Oh, yeah.
Real selective. About as hard to get
ahold of as the Manhattan phone book.
Well, it's authoritive...
and overwhelmingly documented.
And it's bullshit. And if
I'm right, are you gonna put...
the Journal's reputation behind a story
that's gonna blow up in your face?
I'll take a look at what you got
but I'm not moving any deadlines
because you say so.
Are you all right?
Yeah.
Officer Muravchick?
Thank you.
Officer Muravchick,
how are you?
- I'm Sandra Sutherland.
- How do you do?
Fine, thank you.
I'm doing a background check.
Mind if I sit down?
Your Honor,
could I have a word with you?
You presided in a dispute
over support payments.
Jeffrey Wigand?
Yeah, I cited him.
CBS is under criticism because
the CBS News program, 60 Minutes,
will not be presenting
an interview...
What the hell
are you doing?
What does it look like
I'm doing? I'm editing.
No, no, no that. I'm talking
about the Associated Press.
They got the story that
we pulled this interview,
and they talked to Mike and I.
Did you tell them
that we were lying?
No!
I should have.
I told them I disagreed
with you, Mike and Kluster...
that this segment
is as good as the original.
I'm not lying for you.
I'm not gonna shut up for you.
- Not on any of it.
- Hey, I'm not gonna fire you.
Okay? Take a vacation. Now!
Lowell? Look, I've decided
to preface Sunday's show.
I did three minutes on the
Evening News. You'll want to see it.
- Where are you going?
- I've been banished...
in lieu of being fired.
I took off on Tisch.
I took off on Corporate.
They'll know they're not, uh, going
to see everything on Sunday night.
I don't know. How does that
get Wigand on the air?
Do me a favor,
will you? Spare me.
For God's sake, get in the
real world. What do you think?
I'm going to resign in protest
to force it on the air?
The answer's no. I don't plan
to spend the end of my days...
wandering in the wilderness
of National Public Radio.
That decision
I've already made.
This Sunday,
Wallace will broadcast a report...
on the tobacco industry,
including the tough tactics
tobacco companies employ...
to keep a lid on information
that might be damaging.
Is there information
that people should have...
that they're not going to have
because you're not going to
broadcast this interview?
- Yes.
- Today, CBS News president
Eric Kluster...
defended the network's decision
not to broadcast...
key portions
of the controversial interview.
Mr. Kluster said, quote,
"The atmosphere is tougher than ever."
- Where's the rest?
- Dan.
Where the hell's the rest?
- Nebraska football
fans voiced their criticism...
- You cut it!
Coming up in
Bernard Goldberg's America.
- You cut the guts out of what I said!
- It was a time consideration...
Time? Bullshit!
You corporate lackey.
Who told you your incompetent
little fingers have the
requisite skills to edit me?
I'm trying to Band-Aid a situation
here, and you're too dim...
Mike. Mike. Mike.
"Mike"? Mike!
Try "Mr. Wallace."
We work in the same corporation. Doesn't
mean we work in the same profession.
Now, now what are you going to do now?
You going to finesse me?
Lawyer me some more? I've been
in this profession 50 fucking years!
You and the people you work for
are destroying the most respected,
the highest rated, the most
profitable show on this network.
Here. These are
their leads, their sources.
- I want you to have your reporters...
- Suein Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
Have them make
their own calls.
They'll find that these sources
have a different story than
the one that's in the dossier.
Push the deadline,
Charlie.
I'll push it for a week.
I want Milo and Suein to go through it.
What do you want
to buy him for a gift?
Mmm, he's into
kind of little cars that, um...
- That remote control thing?
- Yeah.
All right.
We'll go do that tomorrow.
The 63-36 vote was three
shy of the two-thirds needed to pass...
- Mom. There's Dad.
- Yes?
- On the TV.
- ... dating back to 1986.
The most recent trouble
for Wigand occurred here...
And in local news,
WLKO, Louisville,
has gained access
to a 500-page dossier...
on former Brown & Williamson
research head, Jeffrey Wigand,
detailing charges of shoplifting
and failing to pay child support.
Wigand is currently teaching
chemistry and Japanese...
at the
DuPont Manual High School.
Maria.
Thousands of documents
from inside the tobacco industry...
have surfaced
over the past year.
Documents that
appear to confirm...
what a former
U.S. Surgeon general...
and the current head of the Food and
Drug Administration have been saying.
We learned of a tobacco insider
who could tell us...
whether or not the tobacco industry
has been leveling with the public.
That insider was formerly...
a highly-placed executive
with a tobacco company.
But we cannot broadcast what critical
information about tobacco,
addiction and public health
he might be able to offer.
Why? Because he had to sign
a confidentiality agreement...
with the tobacco company
he worked for.
The management of CBS
has told us...
that knowing
he had that agreement...
if we were to broadcast
an interview with him,
CBS could be faced with
a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.
The fact is, we are not allowed
even to mention his name...
or the name of the company
he worked for.
And, of course, we cannot
show you his face.
And your confidentiality
agreement with...
- Is still in force?
- Yes, it is.
So what are they gonna do?
Sue you for making this appearance?
I would bet on it.
The former executive
has reason to bet on being sued,
for major cigarette
manufacturers...
Yeah.
You disappeared on me.
- How long you staying?
- I disappeared on you?
All right.
What did you think?
I think it was
a disgrace.
- Still no answer.
- Get me the manager's office.
David. David, you've got
a call on line four.
I think you
better take it.
This is David McDougal.
How can I help you?
Mr. McDougal, my name is Lowell Bergman.
I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
I'm concerned for a friend of mine
who's staying at your hotel right now.
Mr. Wigand?
Mr. Wigand?
I-I think I need to call the police.
He won't respond.
No, no, don't call the police. Just
tell him I'm on the phone with you.
My name is Lowell Bergman.
Just tell him that.
Mr. Wigand, Mr. Bergman
is on the telephone.
Did he hear you?
You're breaking up. I can't hear you.
What about now?
- What?
- Hello? Can you hear me now?
- What's happening?
- He doesn't seem to be listening.
All right. Now listen to me.
I want you... I want you to tell him...
in these words:
Get on the fucking phone.
I-I can't say that.
No, you can. Tell him
to get on the fucking phone!
He told me to tell you
to get on the... fucking phone!
You manipulated me into this.
- That's bullshit, Jeff.
- You greased the rails.
I greased the rails for a guy who wanted
to say "yes." I helped him to say "yes."
That's all.
You're not a robot, Jeff.
- All right? You got a mind
of your own, don't you?
- " Up to you, Jeffrey.
"That's the power you have,
Jeffrey.
Vital inside information
the American public need to know."
Lowell Bergman... the hotshot who never
met a source he couldn't turn around.
I fought for you,
and I still fight for you!
You fought for me?
You manipulated me...
into where I am now... staring
at the Brown & Williamson building!
It's all dark except the tenth floor.
That's the legal department.
That's where they
fuck with my life.
Jeffrey, where you going
with this?
So, where you going?
You are... important...
to a lot of people,
Jeffrey.
You think about that.
You think about them.
I'm running out
of heroes, man.
Guys like you
are in short supply.
Yeah, guys like you too.
Where are you, anyway?
I'm on a leave of absence.
Forced vacation.
- You try and have a good time.
- Yeah.
Yeah, I will.
I'm Lowell Bergman. I'm from 60 Minutes.
You know, you take the 60 Minutes...
out of that sentence,
nobody returns your phone calls.
Maybe Wigand's right.
Maybe I'm hooked.
What am I hooked on?
The rush of 60 Minutes?
What the hell for?
"Infotainment"!
It's so fucking useless,
all of it.
So it's a big country with a free press.
You can go and work somewhere else.
"Free press"?
The press is free.
For anyone who owns one.
Larry Tisch has a free press.
- Get some perspective, Lowell.
- I got perspective.
No, you do not.
From my perspective,
what's been going on and what
I've been doing is ridiculous.
- It's half-measures.
- You're not listening.
Really know what you're
going to do before you do it.
I've got Richard Scruggs on the phone.
Patch him through.
Well, Lowell, you are
not gonna believe this.
The governor of Mississippi
is suing his own attorney general...
to abandon litigation
against Big Tobacco.
- Oh, good.
- But now that the version
without Jeff ran,
what's the chance of getting
his interview on the air?
- Hello?
- Yeah, I'm here.
What chance is there of getting
Jeff's interview on the air?
Less than great.
I'd be lying to you
if I did not tell you...
how important it was
in the court of public opinion.
I'd be lying to you
if I didn't tell you...
I'm about out of moves,
Dick.
All right.
See ya.
Hi.
So, what are you folks
doing... here in Lincoln?
- Geology survey.
- Geology?
Yeah?
Really?
How about you?
I work for CBS News.
Oh, yeah?
Just ran into
two of your geologists.
Geologists whose hands
aren't all chewed up.
Lowell, do not...
screw this up.
We are a week away
from an arrest.
- So I'll hold it. And?
- We'll give you a heads-up
before we launch.
- How long?
- Three hours.
You got a deal.
... like the testimony before Congress
of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
Brown & Williamson's chief
executive officer, Thomas Sandefur.
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.
I believe Mr. Sandefur
perjured himself...
- because I watched those
testimonies very carefully.
- All of us did.
There was this
whole line of people,
whole line of C.E.O.'s
up there all swearing.
Part of the reason I'm here
is that I felt...
that their representation...
...can be more rapidly absorbed
in the lung...
and therefore affect the brain
and central nervous system.
- Hello?
- Jim, it's Lowell.
- Hey, where are you?
- Remember that night at P.J.'s?
You asked me if we were
sitting on something explosive.
Well, we're not sitting on it.
CBS Corporate leaned on CBS News,
which yanked an interview we did...
with a top-ranking tobacco scientist,
corporate officer.
They're trying to
close down the story.
You mean, 60 Minutes
is letting CBS Corporate...
decide what is
or is not news?
What's Wallace think
about this? Or Hewitt, or...
How prominent?
What kind of placement?
Oh, come on, Lowell. This is
The New York Times. I don't know.
Well, until you do, all I can
tell you is what you already know.
They will not
air an interview.
Call me back in ten.
- Hello?
- Debbie, it's me.
Hi.
What time is it?
- Oh, it's late.
- That I know. When are you coming back?
I can't get out of here till
mid-morning. I'll be in tomorrow night.
Listen, could you call a number
for me? It's in Mississippi.
Okay.
Hold on a second.
What is it?
- Hello?
- It's Lowell.
All right, Lowell. Page one.
Editorial's interested. Let's talk.
Here's how it works. You ask me
questions. I tell you if you're wrong.
- Lowell, you sure you want to do this?
- Why?
Hey, it doesn't work,
you've burned your bridges, man.
You ready?
Okay.
About this whistle-blower,
did Mike and Don go along
with the corporate decision?
- Lowell?
- Did I tell you you were wrong?
No. Um, I'm assuming
the cave-in begins...
with the threat of litigation
from Big Tobacco.
Are we talking, uh...
Are we talking
Brown & Williamson here?
Did I get you up?
No, I usually sit around
my hotel room dressed like this
at 5:30 in the morning,
sleepy look on my face.
How many shows have
we done? Huh?
- Come on. How many?
- Oh, lots.
That's right.
But in all that time,
Mike,
did you ever get off a plane,
walk into a room...
and find that a source
for a story changed his mind?
Lost his heart?
Walked out on us?
Not one fucking time.
You wanna know why?
I see a rhetorical question
on the horizon.
I'm gonna tell you why.
Because when I tell someone
I'm gonna do something, I deliver.
Oh, how fortunate I am to have
Lowell Bergman's moral tutelage...
- to point me down the shining
path, to show me the way.
- Oh, please, Mike.
- Give me a break.
- You give me a break.
I never left a source
hung out to dry ever.
Abandoned.
Not till right fucking now.
When I came on this job,
I came with my word intact.
I'm gonna leave with my word intact.
Fuck the rules of the game!
Hell, you're supposed
to know me, Mike.
What the hell
did you expect?
You expect me to lie down?
Back off?
Or get over it?
In the real world, when you get to where
I am, there are other considerations.
Like what?
Corporate responsibility?
- What, are we talking celebrity here?
- I'm not...
I'm not talking about
celebrity, vanity, CBS. I'm...
I'm...
I'm talking about...
when you're nearer the end
of your life than the beginning.
And what do you think
you think about then? The future?
"In the future, I'm gonna
do this, become that"?
What future? No.
What you think is...
"How will I be regarded
in the end...
after I'm gone?"
Oh, along the way, I suppose
I made some minor impact.
I did Irangate,
the Ayatollah, Malcolm X,
Martin Luther King,
Saddam, Sadat, etc., etc.
I showed them thieves in suits.
I spent a lifetime building...
all that.
But history only remembers most
what you did last.
And should that be
fronting a segment...
that allowed a tobacco giant
to crash this network...
Does it give someone...
at my time of life pause?
Yeah.
Mike,
in my...
You and I
have been doing this...
together for 14 years.
This is today's
New York Times.
In it is the whole
sordid story...
of what went on
inside our shop.
And in the editorial,
it accuses us...
of betraying the legacy
of Edward R. Murrow.
They conclude most of it
seems pretty unsubstantiated.
You're full of shit,
John.
Yeah.
Front page. There's a picture of Wigand.
Article's entitled,
"Getting Personal."
Byline to Suein Hwang
and Milo Geyelin.
Wait. Hold on
a second, Lowell.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll see
if I can find him.
Yeah, hold on.
Don's looking for you.
- Good.
- The subheading
is " Brown & Williamson...
has a 500-page dossier
attacking chief critic."
It quotes Richard Scruggs
calling it the worst kind...
of an organized smear campaign
against a whistle-blower.
"A close look at the file
and independent research
by this newspaper...
"into its key claim indicates
that many of the serious allegations...
against Mr. Wigand are backed by
scant or contradictory evidence."
This news division has been vilified...
in The New York Times,
in print, on television...
for caving
to corporate interests!
The New York Times ran a
blow-by-blow of what we talked
about behind closed doors.
- You fucked us!
- No! You fucked you!
Don't invert stuff.
Big Tobacco tried to smear Wigand.
You bought it.
The Wall Street Journal...
here... not exactly...
a bastion of
anti-capitalist sentiment,
refutes Big Tobacco's
smear campaign...
as the lowest form
of character assassination.
And now, even now,
when every word...
of what Wigand has said
on our show is printed,
the entire deposition
of his testimony in a court of law...
in the state of Mississippi,
the cat...
totally out of the bag,
you're still
standing here debating.
Don, what the hell else
do you need?
Mike, you tell him.
You fucked up, Don.
It's old news. Stick with me,
like always. We'll be okay.
These things have
a half-life of 15 minutes.
No, that's fame.
Fame has a 15-minute half-life.
Infamy lasts
a little longer.
We caved. It's foolish.
It's simply dead wrong.
Now this is what we're going to do.
We're going over to Black Rock...
Okay? So let's get back to work.
Now what we saw there...
was two potassium chlorate...
would yield two potassium
chloride, also a solid...
They cancelled the 6:00.
I don't know why. I...
I'm on the 8:10.
I should be home... 9:30.
I'll see you then.
I love you. Bye.
- Oh. Thanks, Dad.
- Thanks.
CBS management wouldn't
let us broadcast...
our original story and our
interview with Jeffrey Wigand...
because they were worried
about the possibility...
of a multi-billion dollar
lawsuit against us...
for tortious interference.
But now things have changed.
What Dr. Wigand told us
was that his former...
This industry,
in my opinion, is an industry...
that has perpetrated the biggest fraud
on the American public in history.
They've killed millions
and millions of...
You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
Yeah, there are times
I wish I hadn't done it.
There are times I feel com...
compelled to do it.
If you ask me...
would I do it again,
do I think it's worth it?
Yeah, I think it's worth it.
I promised you a three-hour
heads up. Here it is.
Have a camera crew standing by
in Helena, Montana on Tuesday,
and I'll give you
a three-hour head start.
All right? By the way, that was
a hell of a good show tonight.
- Thank you, Bill.
- Yeah.
You won.
Yeah.
What did I win?
Reporting
from CBS News world headquarters
in New York, good afternoon.
There has been a major break in
the case of the so-called Unabomber.
CBS News has learned
that a remote homesite...
outside of Lincoln, Montana...
has been under F.B.I.
Surveillance for several weeks.
Great, Lowell.
Thanks for this.
You know, we beat everybody.
ABC, NBC, CNN.
Mike.
That Canada story...
still interest you?
Everything interests me.
Uh, I quit, Mike.
Bullshit.
Come on.
It all worked out.
You came out okay
in the end.
I did?
What do I tell a source
on the next tough story?
"Hang in with us.
You'll be fine. Maybe."
No.
What got broken here...
doesn't go
back together again.
So, uh...